
Issue No 35		15 October 1999

Interview

Strategic Responses

Interview with Peter Lewis

NSW Police Association president Mark Burgess has worked in the coal mines and the waterfront - now he's the public face of NSW police


	Mark Burgess

You're president of one of the few unions who can boast close to 100 per cent union membership. What's your secret?

You'll find police associations around the world have these high levels, which reflect the professional nature of the membership. Police are committed to their union, without being radical. But that conservatism should never be taken as a weakness and I think that's been displayed in recent times, particularly NSW, over things like appeal rights and salaries and other types of issues, but by and large a conservative group.

It's also though a very discreet professional group. Where a lot of unions ran into difficulties through the amalgamation process, that was never really an option for the Police was it?

No, in fact in all the jurisdictions in Australia, with the exception of the Australian Federal Police, they are industry specific, so they only have sworn police officers. In the Australian Federal Police they cover the public servants working in its jurisdiction as well.

Even though you have got this strong membership base, I understand you are doing work with TUTA to embrace the organising approach to unions. Can you tell us a bit about what you are doing there?

At our last biennial conference we invited TUTA along to play a key role. We've seen a number of our fellow police associations, both in Australia and overseas, suffer significantly at the hands of oppressive governments, and certainly oppressive management in various police services. And whilst we have probably escaped that in NSW to a large extent, that's not to say in these days of economic rationalism that that's not going to happen in NSW as well. The only way, I believe, unions will effectively combat those types of regimes and ensure that their members' rights and interests and welfare are preserved, is by being organised. And that's exactly what we are doing. I think we also have a very clear obligation to those people who are elected as officials in the workplace to ensure that they've got the skills and resources to carry out their role.

So, how are you doing that? How are you moving to an organised approach?

What we have done is we have developed what we call our Branch Focus Project and we are running it in two pilot sites across the State; one in the Hunter area and one in what we call the Endeavour region, which is the inner-west area of Sydney. It involves training programs for branch officials, specifically developed for the Police. So it specifically looks at issues that are relevant to policing and issues that are relevant to officials or branch officials in the Police Association. Interestingly enough we have had a great deal of interest shown in our programmes from New Zealand and other jurisdictions throughout Australia who are looking at sending representatives along from their jurisdictions to try and pick up on what we are doing here in NSW.

And what are the big ticket items for Police at the moment in NSW?

Well, certainly the East Timor one is a very, very topical item, and as I said, I am in Canberra as we speak, looking at a whole range of issues on behalf of our members who will travel over there. We are trying to ensure that anyone that actually ends up going to Timor is not only catered for whilst they are in Timor, but certainly into the future. Those police officers that have come back in recent times from the first contingent, many of those police officers, and I must say perhaps army officers as well, will suffer significant trauma as a result of it. In fact, post traumatic distress from some of the horrific things that they have seen over there, and we are trying to ensure that our members are catered for, not only whilst they are there, but certainly into the future when they come back.

Two other key issues we are looking at is the impact of Fringe Benefit Tax legislation on police - particularly on rural police and police officers who have to take police vehicles home when on call. The other issue is some of the superannuation legislation that will the goalposts for police officers in coming years.

Your Association has done some interesting work with OH&S over the years. A few years ago after the Crescent Head shooting, you actually launched a prosecution against the Police Service under the OH&S Act. Where did that end up?

That matter is still in process. In fact, another one has been launched since that, and that is in relation to lead poisoning suffered by many of our weapons trainers in ranges throughout NSW. And we have launched a prosecution in that respect as well.

What would be the implications of those cases?

I think it will be interesting because we are saying that obviously the Police Service has a duty of care and obligation to protect our members, and perhaps on these occasions that duty of care has lapsed.

And so if the case got up it would basically change the ways that police administration has to operate?

I would think so, perhaps more so than police. I think it would probably change the whole attitude of employers right across the country.

Another area where unionists come into contact with police is on the picket line. You have negotiated a code of conduct for pickets with unionists, but do the other unions understand what those rights and responsibilities are?

Probably the union officials understand. From time to time perhaps some of the members don't quite thoroughly understand. But I think what you have to remember is the fact that those police officers that are actually there working on the picket lines are union members themselves. And of course, like most things, they've got their own view of the world and many of them are obviously very sympathetic to the plight of the people that are actually on the picket line.

If you look back to the MUA dispute, I believe that the Police Association, particularly in NSW, led the way in Australia in the way it let its members be utilised. We didn't become puppets for either the government, the unions, or the employer. We played what we believed was the appropriate role, and I think if you looked at the Waterfront Dispute in NSW, particularly the waterfront in Sydney, I don't think that anyone could argue that the police in that role and the Police Association's involvement, was a bit of a watershed, in the way those sort of issues should be handled in the future.

Have there been instances where police have actually had to stand up for that right of neutrality, where there has been the feeling that they are expected to go through hard on unionists and picketers?

Oh look, there's been many instances because obviously, the employer from time to time tries to encourage whoever might be in charge of the police at the picket line, to take a particular course of action that certainly would suit the employer. And on many occasion in fact, it's been our own officials at those sites that have intervened to ensure that equality is given to both sides of the argument. That not only the picketers are catered for, but of course the management as well, and I think we have been successful and I think the long running dispute in the Hunter Valley, at Rio Tinto, was probably another example of how well equipped we are to handle those sort of issues and certainly ensure that there is no negative criticism, particularly from those on the picket line.

In NSW the last few years has seen significant reform in the Police Service. What's your union's evaluation of the Carr Government and Police Minister Whelan in terms of Labor principles of government?

Look, I don't think that anyone could argue that there's been enormous gains for policing under the current government. - Enormous gains. And I think you've only got to look at issues such as salary, you've got to look at issues such as resources and in particular police numbers. When I talk about resources I am also talking about capsicum spray. I'm talking about extendable batons. I'm talking about the firearms and body armour hat we have. Upgrading of our workers' compensation benefits for police. A whole range of issues. And I think there's a long way to go.

We've received tremendous support from this Government, but that's not to say from time to time, we will have differing views and we will make those views very clearly known to the Government. But on all occasions to date, we've been able to finally negotiate outcomes that have been in the interests of both sides in win-win situations. But as I've said, don't take the conservative nature of police for weakness, because I think if you refer back to our experience in 96/97 salaries and appeal rights, I think we were as militant on those occasions as any union in NSW.

When you say your members are conservative, what are their attitudes to the law and order policies that you hear around election times?

Whenever we argue on issues of law and order, we always try to do it from a base of research. So we don't like to just use the rhetoric, we try to back what we say with appropriate research. And if you recall before the last election, the discussions - particularly in relation to police numbers - we supported our argument with a very, very concise document that was very well researched, looking at worldwide trends of policing. We supplied that to both the Government and the Opposition in the lead up to the election, and no one, neither the media, the Government, the Opposition or anyone in academia was able to take points away from the arguments that we raised. So if we continue to do it that way, and do it in a professional manner, I think we are always going to be successful in our campaigns.

Having worked in the mines and the waterfront, I know all about industrial muscle. But if you look at the results police have achieved in the past few years, there's a case for a smarter sort of unionism. The muscle has its place, but in policing we have always had our greatest victories when we've had strong community support. And the community aren't dumb.

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Issue 35 contents

Interview: Strategic Responses
NSW Police Association president Mark Burgess has worked in the coal mines and the waterfront - now heï¿½s the public face of NSW police

Republic: Negative Campaigning
If the Republic fails, one of the main complaints which should be leveled against the ARM is its refusal to play dirty.

Unions: Interpreter smooths the way for Kosovar Refugees
ï¿½The people really appreciate what Australia has done for them but they still want to go home," said Ariana Biba, a HREA member who has been worked recently as an interpreter assisting newly arrived refugees from Kosovo.

Education: Count Yorga's Evil Plot
NTEU president Carolyn Allport looks at Kemp's brazen attack on univestities and warns the battle is not won yet.

Safety: Death in the Snowy
Beyond the engineering achievements of the Snowy Mountains Scheme, there is the tragic story of those workers killed or seriously injured in the construction of the project.

International: Why Is the WTO So Anti-Labour?
Driving the cost of labour down appears to be the main priority of the World Trade Organisation

History: The Importance of Tradition
Historical documents bring us into closer contact with the past and its concerns as this 1945 extract from the NSW Nurses Association journal, The Lamp, shows.

Review: McLibel - The Mice That Roared
This documentary is the classic tale of the little guys against the system, a battle for the right to dissent.

Satire: Government Privatises Numbers
Prime Minister John Howard released a new policy on numerals yesterday, to bring them in in line with the Liberal Party's plan to privatise ï¿½Pretty much everything before we lose office.ï¿½

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