Interview

Madame President

Interview with Peter Lewis

The new President of the NSW Legislative Council Meredith Burgmann has spent most of her life opposing authority. Now she has a chance to exercise it.

	MLC President: Meredith Burgmann

Do Presidents of the Legislative Council come to the job with an agenda?

Well I did! I want to change the position from the mysterious, archaic way it has been carried out in the past to one that is transparent, modern and relevant. It shouldn't be any different than being Speaker or President of the Senate; it's just that most previous occupants have been a bit old fashioned king's men. Really it's about chairing the Parliament and administering the building and doing the protocol stuff. In the running of the building there needs to be more transparency, because I think that's good industrial practice. I'm going to continue to make statements on issues I feel strongly about. I want to use my staff and resources in a constructive way. I never wanted to be a Minister, but I do want to play a meaningful political role.

You made your name as protester challenging authority; now you're in a position of huge authority. What have you do done wrong?

It's very funny and most ironic. I sat there today at the 175th anniversary of the Supreme Court; and I saw Jim Spigelman in front of me and Lance Wright beside me, both of whom were radicals in the 60s; one's now the President of the Industrial Relations Commission and the other the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court.

Does this mean you've all stopped being radicals?

I think it shows that the system has moved. The positions are more attainable. You can still be radical though. I will continue to attend demonstrations and promote the things I believe in.

Do you intend playing a role in the Republican debate?

I've always played a role. I'm going to a Republican lunch next week. I think I will be treading a thin line between my personal views and my official role. However, my official role is no different to that of the Speaker who is also a Republican. It's not like I'm the Governor, who is the Queen's representative. The point about the Queens portrait (which was removed), was that it was up there staring at me in my office and I objected to it. There are other paintings of the Queen in the Parliament that I would approach in a more sensitive way.

What I am planning to do is institute an acknowledgment that this parliament is on Eora land before the Council sits each day. I'm going to start that on National Sorry Day and then do it every day after that.

What will you say to the Queen if you get to meet her when she comes out to Australia?

The official answer is: it's hypothetical, but I'd have a problem with it.

What about having to deal as an impartial person with some of the people in the House whose views are violently opposed to yours?

I've promised that I'll deal with everyone in the House impartially; and I will. That includes Fred -- mind you I taught Fred...

Taught him?

Yes, at Macquarie University...

What did you teach him?

Not very much!

The abolition of the Legislative Council is on the political agenda; usually when you see it mentioned in the media it's about someone who's drunk or on a junket. Are you an abolitionist; and if you're not, what are you going to do to change the public perception of it?

I've never been an abolitionist; I've always believed in a house of review for several reasons. First, I think it does serve a role in preventing rampant tyranny like we saw in Queensland under Bjielke-Petersen which wouldn't have happened with a house of review. But more importantly, I think that single member constituency voting does not eliminate minority groups and if you actually look at who's represented in Upper Houses around Australia, it gives a voice to minority political viewpoints which are legitimate and do need to have a stake in the system. Upper Houses with their proportional representative system also deliver for women and ethnic minorities -- that's a good thing for democracy.

In terms of image. yes, there was the unfortunate incident involving a former President; but my view on that is that drunkenness in both Houses occurs because of the stupid sitting hours. I've never seen anyone drunk in the chamber before five o'clock and if we sat from nine to five the problem would be solved. And it's not just a problem for the Upper House.

I did a survey of the Upper House a couple of years ago and found that Upper House members were quite significantly younger than Lower House members and better qualified. if you look at the upper House now, I think we've got two QCs. three doctors, a couple of PhDs. it actually is a young, well-qualified House. Some of the media have just not caught up with the fact that it's not crusty old men and party hacks. Both sides are putting their operators in.

Given that talent, what contribution can it make?

I think the committee system works pretty well. I think the Standing Committee on Social Issues under Ann Symonds did wonderful work. State Development does good work; Law and Justice have done some good reports. If you look at it, three of the five senior ministers are in the Upper House - we have the Attorney General, the Treasurer and Della Bosca who runs everything. It's amazing when you think of it that Carr's in there with the second eleven in the Lower House and his heavy hitters are in the Upper House. That's to do with the way the Upper House is elected. You can have talent that hasn't had to go out to whoop-whoop to stack branches. I mean, would Jeff Shaw have gone to Jonesville and stacked branches??

For someone who came through Labor Council at a time when the factions were strong, you've been seeing from a distance the defactionalisation of Level Ten of Sussex Street. How do you see it from where you sit? And do you see any chance of it filtering down to Level Nine and even Macquarie Street?

If defactionalisation means stopping vicious behaviour to minority groups, then I'm totally in favour of it. If it means having one set of rules which is applied to everyone, I support that. In a way I think that's what Michael Costa is talking about, he is actually talking about stopping the everyday terrible press we get about somebody rorting the system. But if it means there being one view within the Labor Party which everyone has to agree with or they're regarded as troublemakers, then I think it's crazy. I think Michael's view of defactionalisation is that those in the Left he can get to agree with him are part of one big happy faction and those of the Left that he can't get to agree with him aren't.

But where are the points of agreement and disagreement?

I think there's general agreement that some of the worst excesses of branch stacking and bad behaviour in the various committees of the ALP. But agreement on policy issues will never occur; because we are, thank god, the party of ideology and argument and principle. the day we stop being that is the day people like me will leave.

But where are the fault-lines of policy at the moment?

Privatisation, economic rationalism, civil liberties, drug reform.

Isn't there a sense that the alignments on those issues are shifting so that people need not be locked into the one position on all issues all the time?

I think that's a bigger problem for the Right, funnily enough. When you're in here you realise that on policy issues the right is more fragmented than the left is. The left supports drug law reform, it totally opposes economic rationalism, it's pretty united on law and order stuff.

But there were a few Left Ministers who realised what they could do with some of that power privatisation money...

The Left Ministers came out with a formal objection to privatisation. Quite frankly, Michael Costa is playing merry hell with the Right and the Left is sitting back and agreeing with him when it suits us. I mean, I totally agree with a lot of what Costa is saying, but that's not me becoming one faction, it's him supporting the Left in some of our traditonal issues.

Michael won't like this, but he's really making Labor Council operate more like the way the ACTU did. When I was first a delegate to ACTU Congress I couldn't believe it; people put up resolutions and we debated them and voted on them. You won some and lost some. In 13 years of Labor Council, the Left put up resolutions every week and every week the right opposed them. I don't know if the ACTU still operates like that, but when I was involved it did. In those days the Labor Council was extraordinary -- whenever I have a bad day here I still say it was nowhere near as bad as Labor Council under Ducker and others. I actually stood against Peter Sams for assistant secretary once. I was overseas lecturing and they sent me a postcard saying: "Sams has fallen under a bus. You are assistant secretary". For a second I actually thought it was true and I was horrified!

Finally, you have a four year term in government. Waht would you like to see achieved?

Sensible drug reform. that is the critical issue.

And what will the test be for that?

The test will be kids not dying. I keep quoting the woman who started the safe houses in America, who said "we can't stop them being silly, but we can stop them from being dead". We have to accpet that prohibition has not worked and we have to look at other ways of deakling with it.

And are you confident this will do that?

I am hopeful.

  View entire issue - print all of the articles!

  Issue 14 contents

»	Call For IR Crisis Talks as Country Conference Looms
»	Workers Sacked for Body Hire
»	British Union Secures Free Net Access
»	Cab Charge Wars: SBS Workers Fight for Their Lives
»	State Wage Case Smooth - Except for Brack
»	FOI Loopholes Could Leave Public Servants Exposed
»	Drug Summit Misses Tokin� Gesture
»	Public Will Lose Again From Rail Sackings
»	Robin Hood Strikes Again
»	CPSU shows it cares�
»	Unions Take Action on Timor, Stolen Generation

»	Guest Report
»	Sport
»	Trades Hall
»	Piers Watch

»	Faction Calls Miss Point
»	Don't Ignore the Class Divide
»	Timor: Look at the Map!
»	Songs of the Revolution Feedback

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