Robbo’s Rules

I think there are two key areas. One is childcare. I think that there are three unions in particular that have got coverage in childcare - all of which are doing, and working reasonably effectively in that area. I think that Labor Council can add some value there by coordinating some of those activities.

The other area is building and construction, with the demarcation at the moment that has been reached between the CFMEU and the AWU in civil construction. This has really given us some great opportunities to go out and organize that sector, and it has been traditionally a sector, particularly in the rural areas, where the workers have been exploited and made to feel very vulnerable and are unable to bargain.

Rail, I think is an ongoing area, and again the really the rail unions are moving forward in that area. This year we have seen the start of the future based on developing a vision for the industry. I think it really seems that the unions are on the front foot in that area. And it puts them in a strong position to do some good things there.

How important has it been building up Labor Council's research capacity to go shift from reacting to change to creating its own agneda?

Well, it has been very important because it means that you are on the front foot most times. You are actually out there leading the debate, rather than reacting to responses from think tanks and industry leaders. I think that it puts us in a position where you actually start to harness the debate and to take the debate in a direction that we want to see it go. It then means that the other groups that are involved in those particular sectors are reacting to what we say. To a certain extent, if you are out there leading the debate, you are setting the direction and people are responding to your and I think that has been very effective.

The other thing is that it gives you the capacity to gain insights into things that might not otherwise have been looked at in any great detail, and I think in particular the focus groups that we commissioned during the year has given us an insight into what is actually going on in the broader community. Not just in relation to attitudes towards unions, but people's whole view on society, the wellbeing of their communities, and what their expectations are of work, which I think has vastly changed over the last 10 years.

How has your view of unions' place in the world changed this year as a result of some of that research?

It has changed to the extent that we have got to look at how we go out there and engage people. I think one of the risks for unions and people in unions is that there is a tendency to develop strategies without necessarily looking at what is going on . Unfortunately, the demands that are placed on most union officials mean that then the people they interact with most of the time are effectively other union people. So you get an insiders view of the world.

The outcomes of those focus groups have still got me pondering what we do next year in terms of some of the directions we take, and more importantly, how we actually go out and engage with the community, and how we are perceived and how we get our message out. Because clearly, those focus groups demonstrate that it is very difficult to get a message across just using the free media, because I don't think people listen to free media anymore.

There's too many voices, and so, how do you cut through it?

Well, I think that is right and at this stage that is one of the things that we wish to develop next year. How do we better get our messages out through the free media, or do we actually contemplate paying for ads, and if we do, how do they fit. For instance, the ads, if that was the concept, would be something that you would run in the context of campaigns that other unions are running on the ground, so that they are real life stories. The fact is that most people react to situations where there is a real person involved and they can relate to that particular set of circumstances and they can project themselves or their family into those set of circumstances. That is generally when people stand up and take note. So yes, that is one area that we have just got to look at doing better.

Politically, we have had a State election this year. A Labor government re-elected with a big majority. Has anything changed with the unions' relationship with the State Government?

Oh, I think it varies from area to area. I think we are getting along reasonably well, but things could always be better. I think by and large they are probably not as bad as they were a couple of years ago. I still don't think we get as much as we ought to get out of State governments, but there is always that conflict I think, when you have got a Labor government. They have got a whole different set of responsibilities when they are in government, some of which don't necessarily sit well with the union movement. But that said, we get reasonably good access now, with most Ministers give you a listening to, which is a start, and you can get access.

I think we have still got a long way to go in terms of being able to better influence and get the results that we would like - and we have developed some strategies this year. Things like back bench briefings, which have worked very well, and been very well attended, and I think allow a means for us to communicate with back benchers and actually have some influence within government. Likewise, we have been communicating with the ALP branches about the things that we are doing and what is important to us which has also given us a greater capacity to influence government and outcomes.

Is there a capacity to build that structure into relations with the Federal ALP as well?

I think there is. Obviously it is more difficult when they sit down there in Canberra. But I think it is possible. It may not be exactly the same as the one we have developed in NSW, but I think the communications between ALP branches and the Labor Council is effective, in the sense that it is doesn't just give you the capacity to influence State, but also allows you to influence some of the Federal MPs in those electorates. I think that is important We just need to work out a better communications mechanism with the back benchers who are MPs in NSW and develop that up as well.

Finally, I know that I ask you this every year, but what do you see as your benchmark for 2004?

I think 2004 will see an effective integration with the South Coast Labor Council, and certainly our Annual General Meeting will consider rule changes to recognize the South Coast Labor Council as a regional branch council, and I think that is terrific. That is one of the highlights of 2003. To have got to the point to have got an agreement to the rules I think is fantastic and having that bedded down by this time next year and working very effectively, will be a good test, and I think having run a campaign in that area will be one of the things that I would like to think we will have done successfully.

I would actually like to think that next year we will have half our unions actually growing. We have got a whole range of our unions that are now seeing significant growth and I think that by next year that it is not beyond possibilities that 50% of our affiliates will actually be growing, with net growth, which I think is pretty good. I think if we get to that point, that will be a pretty successful year.

On a personal level I would like to think that we'll have run effective campaigns in the area of childcare, or assisted in running campaigns in childcare and construction, and probably develop another few good research projects in some other sectors and start to push the debate in those areas as well.

And, of course, Trades Hall will almost be finished?

Well with a bit of luck it will be well on its way by this time next year, and that would also be very satisfying to see that come to fruition.