
Issue No 76		03 November 2000

LaborNET	Ask Neale	Tool of the Week

Interview

Withering On The Vine

Cooking shows and 'Bugs fucking to Mozart' may become the staple diet on our ABC as news and current affairs face a war of attrition. Quentin Dempster gives Workers Online an insider's view of our endangered national broadcaster .


	Dempster has his say

You've described the 1990s as the ABC's most pressured and dangerous decade. How are things looking from your perspective in the Year 2000?

Well, just as bad. And what we are facing now is the consequences of 15 years of de-funding and our inability to migrate into the new media through digital broadcasting and enhancement of our internet services - which have been a success. To stay relevant the ABC needs to be in this area, but the Government refused to give us multi channelling and digital and hasn't come to the party with any money to put content on our new channels.

The ABC has been asked to do more with less, even since David Hill. Is it possible to do even more with even less?

No, it is not possible to do more with less. We have to start diverting money from core services to get at least a foothold in multi-channelling and digital. That is what the argument has been about the Board's decision last week to move money out of the news and current affairs budget into what is called "new media".

Our internet services are a success because they add value to the taxpayer investment through our news and current affairs and other information services in the development of websites. We spend about $3 million a year on our internet services. NineMSN spends about $27 million. Fairfax is spending about $30 million and they are not making a quid out of it. What we are doing, we are getting a tremendous amount of access to the ABC's internet services comparable to NineMSN but for a lousy $3 million. I mean we are making do - we are doing more with less. People come to the ABC because it is the most trusted media institution in Australia.

In an era of media convergence why is there a need for a public broadcaster?

Because we don't come at you with our content with a hard, commercial sell. The history of public broadcasting from the start of radio in the late '20s has been the altruism contained in it. And that is to provide to the polity independent, innovative programming. It is meant to build a sense of cohesion and inclusiveness in a society and in a democracy.

What is unique about the ABC is that we do not have a commercial culture. We are not in the business of trying to get audiences for advertisers. We are not in the market gouging for revenue. As public broadcasters - we try to treat our audiences as citizens in a democracy.

What is your reaction to Jonathan Shier's articulation of his vision last week?

Shier is feeling his way, I am sure at the moment. He has raised some questions about education and health and history and he has got a structure in there which, he says, establishes his credentials in re-making or reinventing public broadcasting. - 21 genres that cover every aspect of human endeavour. Now, on paper that might look OK, but those of us who have been fighting to support the ABC over the years, obviously ask the question "where is the money coming from?"

It is not as if the ABC and its staff aren't used to change. We are more than willing to have change. We are more than willing to talk through programming; other innovative ideas; reinventions; recreations; all that sort of stuff - but what the ABC is facing is a diminution of its services and its capacity for innovation because of Alston's policy of de-funding.

There is a prickly relationship between this Federal Government and the ABC. But is this really a new thing? Is it qualitatively different from the relationship that the ABC had with Labor for example?

No. The major parties - Labor and Liberal - say they have a commitment to public broadcasting. They have all the rhetoric ready at hand, but the facts say the opposite has been the case. Under Hawke and Keating the ABC was run down as Hawke and Keating cuddled up to Packer and Murdoch. The ABC had to press on as best it could, and did very well. I think in anybody's language the ABC is a success story. We are not a huge drain on the public purse when you compare us with Defence expenditure and given the value to the country of having an inclusive public broadcaster.

No, both the Labor and Liberal Parties have always used their patronage system to sometimes stack the board with party political hacks. The ABC has been enduring that since 1932. The point is that we really need to get beyond the political stack and that two party manipulation of the broadcaster, to work out what is in the country's best interest and the ABC's best interests in the years ahead. Particularly with these exciting possibilities with new media. With multi-channelling and digital, with the internet - for not a lot of outlay.

For example, there is alienation in the bush of Australia now, which we know there is because of globalisation. But for not much money we can turn our 48 ABC regional radio centres into television studios. With digi cameras and desktop editing it is cost effective to turn those regional centres into television news outlets so that the local communities can be involved in discussions about things that are important to their regions. We haven't been able to do that. We have been closing down regional television.

I would love to be able to get those 48 regional centres operating in television because we can multi-channel. With digital we can transmit to niche markets. Wollongong could have its own regional news, current affairs. Mackay, Maryborough, Bunbury - all around the country these regional centres could be brought back into the mainstream of broadcasting by having their own outlets.

You describe in your book how American public television has deteriorated to the point where it consists of "Bugs fucking to Mozart" genres. Do you have that feel about the ABC here as well? That we are well down that track?

I fear that we will go down that track. And that was confirmed by the Board's decision to scale down news and current affairs. I mean, do we want a robust democracy? Do we want to see the Prime Minister being subjected to an adversarial interview? I know it is a point of great aggravation between the politicians and the public broadcaster. But it is what allows the public to be involved in the political process. I know Prime Ministers don't like it. I know they don't like being held to account and sometimes asked difficult questions on national television. But it is the contribution of the broadcaster through that process to political accountability and involving the citizens in the debate.

Robert Hughes was quite good in his reference to bugs fucking to Mozart, because that would indicate that you could go to soft-centred programming which didn't offend anybody. Surely we can negotiate and see that it is in the public interest to have a robust exchange. To have a challenge of political orthodoxy; to have a testing of policies; to have a range of ideas.

Do you accept that allegations of bias directed at the ABC are true?

The ABC is a flawed institution. We make mistakes. There are errors or judgement - errors of editorial judgement - from time to time. But it is not a major problem with the public.

There is no systemic bias in the ABC, I contend. The ABC Act requires of us to strive to present material in the highest standards of objective journalism. That there is balance. That there is guarding against undue influence from vested interests; vested political interests and what have you.

Of course people can see bias from time to time and there can be instances of it. We have quite a substantial accountability regime that we are all subjected to. It goes from the ABC Act to the ABC Board's editorial guidelines, which we can all be held to account for. There is the Board's own independent Complaints Review Panel, looking at bias and balance in ABC programming, as well as our Code of Practice which is handed up to the Australian Broadcasting Authority. The ABC is subjected to external oversight. As well, there is the Parliament itself.

As well as that we are also held to account through the Defamation and Contempt laws, Federal and State. There is a huge accountability regime there in a society which is increasingly more secretive. Government which is more secretive. Corporations which are more secretive because of the commercial-in-confidence provisions which they always put up to try to stop debate.

The ABC exists with its own accountability regime in an increasingly secretive society.

What are the flaws in the organisation as you see them?

Well, you name them. I am too biased in favour of the ABC to list them. But the flaws can be where you see inexperience coming up. People not being well briefed or across issues. The ABC audience particularly are very discerning and they can tell when you are not on top of things that you should be.

There are flaws in training and in your own level of experience that come out on air. The public picks up on them and fortunately the interface with the public is very good and they are very quick to phone up and tell us where we have gone wrong.

You describe the ABC as having its own personality. What do you mean by that, and how is that personality surviving the funding dramas?

Well, the personality - the argument is whether we had this personality of wanting to serve the public as citizens, or we were going to turn ourselves into a business - be in the game of Pay Television to get revenue from the market - use our strengths in various program areas to get some money from the market. Whether we were going to be revenue hunters or people who had a strong commitment to service to the public. That is what I mean by 'personality'.

How do you think the ABC stacks up in a global context?

The ABC is one of the most cost effective broadcasters in the world, given that we have held on to our bridges to audience.

Triple J for the kids -getting innovative Australian material to air; giving people a go; promoting the musicality of Australians.

Classic FM through the orchestral network. What country in the world has got six symphony orchestras to call on? They are now subsidiary companies of the ABC. That is a marvellous thing for a country of 19 million people.

News Radio for the news junkies. Because of the digital technology, it makes use of all the actuality that comes from having reporters around Australia and the world. Our network of international correspondents reporting for Australia with an Australian perspective on global events. In Sydney against a very competitive redneck radio market we've got 702 and metros all around the other capitals - Newcastle as well - and the 48 regional centres.

All that is sustained on an operational budget of about $480 million. And our television channel - and Radio Australia, which was tragically gutted by the ABC and the Howard Government through the cuts. If there is anything that is close to epitomising the death struggle it is the mindless decimation of Radio Australia through the Howard Government cuts and the capitulation by the ABC to those cuts. I mean we have lost the Australian voice right through Asia up to China and through the Pacific.

Shier's just floated the idea of combining SBS and ABC. What do you think about that?

Well I don't think it would wash politically. I mean SBS was started by the Fraser Government in the 70s because of a need to include the ethnic communities. I mean, one in four Australians is from a non-English speaking background and the ABC was remiss in watching the trends in the changing ethnic mix of Australia. I was a bit distressed that Mr Shier thought that SBS wouldn't be started now because Australia is a multicultural society. I mean, we are considered something of a success as a multicultural society because of outfits like SBS. The ABC has had to lift its game in recognising the ethnic mix. We have been accused rightly in the past of being Anglo-centric and that has slowly changed. SBS has been part of that. SBS gets about $60 million compared with the ABS's $480 million in operational funding and I think that is a very good investment in social cohesion as well.

If you were the Managing Director of the ABC what would be your vision? What direction would you take it in?

I would want to enhance services in new media. One of the things that has been bugging me over the last few years through the Howard Government cuts is that we have been forced to depend on other broadcasters' shelf items. It is cheaper to buy some other broadcasters programs than it is to make it yourself and the ABC has been looking more like UK TV than Australian TV to me. A lot of the audiences love it. Some of the stuff is good quality and we have held our audience in television, but the Act says we are supposed to enhance a sense of national identity - Australian identity. Well, how do you enhance a sense of Australian identity on the Vicar of Dibley and Dinner Ladies and British "fart" comedy like The Royle Family, which I am told is funny to some. But that is where I would take it. I would want to greatly enhance the Australian programming. The BBC broadcasts 90% British programming.

What role do you see for the labour movement in defending the integrity of the ABC?

Well, the Labor Party has to decide whether it wants to hang on the coat tails of Lachlan Murdoch and play tycooning - as Keating and Hawke did pathetically - as Howard is doing with Packer - and get a decent public broadcasting policy. I hope the Labor Party as a result of this debate will reconsider its policy. You know, it won't be a case of Kim and Lachlan and Kim and James Packer. I mean, the Labor Party has been a great disappointment to me since Keating's cross media rule which saw the destruction of the Herald & Weekly Times group. He did it for political reasons but he never had an idea of media policy.

Talk about competition in media. It was a joke! Talk about Fred Hilmer's competition policy. It was a joke when it came to media.

And what about the union movement?

The union movement has to consider the policy as well. Whether it has a public broadcasting policy, or a media policy itself, so that it can feel it is included in the dealings of the country. Whether it can get a fair run. Does the union movement get a fair run out of the Murdoch press? Does the union movement get a fair run out of the Packer press? Look at the question of balance and fairness and see that the ABC charter has allowed unions to get their voice heard. So I think for that reason alone the union movement should be a solid supporter of the enhancement of public broadcasting.

Quentin Dempster has worked for the ABC for 16 years as a political reporter, current affairs presenter and investigative journalist. He was staff-elected director on the ABC board from 1992 to 1996. He has just written a book - 'Death Struggle' - how political malice and boardroom powerplays are killing the ABC. (Allen and Unwin)

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Issue 76 contents

Interview: Withering On The Vine
Cooking shows and 'Bugs fucking to Mozart' may become the staple diet on our ABC as news and current affairs face a war of attrition. Quentin Dempster gives Workers Online an insider's view of our endangered national broadcaster .

US Election: Sugar Candy Politics
Like in everything else, Americans like their politics sugar coated. A Nation in denial, they are happier maintaining the fantasy that the world is a fine and dandy place says Michael Gadiel.

US Election: George W. Bushwhacked by Texas Truth Squad
The Texas Truth Squad are a group of Texan union members travelling the US on a crusade to expose the Republican presidential nominee as a corporate rogue who in his time as Governer proved himself as an enemy of the worker.

History: Federation and the Labour Movement
National celebrations will mark the Centenary of Federation next year. The labour movement's opposition to Federation at the referenda held around the Australian colonies in 1899 will attract less commemoration, although the republicans of 1999 might have benefited from reflection on the causes of working class discontent one hundred years earlier says Stuart Macintyre.

International: Unions Mac Their Day
McDonald's - the biggest employer of young people around the world - is increasingly becoming the target of union recognition campaigns, backed by human rights groups concerned about the fast food chains practices in countries such as Indonesia, China, Russia, Canada and Germany.

Satire: Wiranto�s charity album inspires genocidal maniacs everywhere
Indonesia�s favourite former strongman, General Wiranto, has recently decided to record an album of love songs. Entitled To You My Indonesia, Wiranto�s album has already sold 8,000 copies and is raising money for refugees.

Review: What About the Workers?
A big, gruff bloke in a blue singlet, on strike or just not working, and generally being difficult. That's the trade unionist for you. Barry Cohen's new book What About the Workers? shows this image may have a bit of truth about it, but he would be telling a few good yarns while he was standing about.

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