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Interview

Holding the Line

Interview with Andrew Casey and Peter Lewis

Diwan Shankar, Assistant National Secretary of the Fiji TUC, is in Australia to consolidate support for his members and plead for ongoing bans.

What is the latest from Fiji

Well, I spoke to a friend of mine in Suva this morning. There is a meeting arranged at 11 o'clock with George Speight and the military again after the talks broke down yesterday, but at this point in time there hadn't gathered any of the people involved in the talks at the military barracks or wherever they were supposed to meet. So it is very much the same as it was yesterday.

In terms of the bans that have been placed on by Australian and other international unions, the argument coming out by employers that we are actually hurting the Fijian workers by our actions - what is the feeling amongst Fijian workers about the international bans?

Basically all affiliates of Fiji TUC who are members both Indo- Fijian and native Fijian communities, and other ethnic groups - not one has said these bans are not a good thing. They are all certainly behind FTUC's actions because we wanted to direct the attention back to the issue of hostages. And as you know, the employers who are jumping up and down and saying there are job losses taking place because of the bans. That is not true. In the tourism industry the bans have no effect. In the industries like the sugar industry, the bans have no effect. This is where the largest loss of jobs has taken place.

The employers are jumping on the bandwagon and reducing hours and that sort of thing. The retail trade - the shops that burned down - the looting that took place - they are still not operational so they have reduced the number of workers in that area. That has got nothing to do with bans.

There is only really the manufacturing sector, but in the garment industry especially the people who are jumping up and down upbraiding the workers outside the factories and telling them to demonstrate against the FTUC decision are the ones who still have work with them, and numbers haven't gone down as such from the surveys that has taken place by the Employers' Federation. The numbers haven't been in any way close to what has been in the tourism industry, sugar industry and other places.

Therefore, the people who are jumping up and down have been least affected at this point in time and they are using the issue of workers being affected and job losses to get the bans uplifted and really the postal stoppages is hurting the system now. The food is such that there has not been a shortage of food, but in time of course it will. But of course, our workers are prepared to take the sacrifice for the greater achievement of democrac. Therefore we haven't had any complaints from our members saying that the bans are a bad thing.

What measures have you put in place to look after workers who end up without an income stream because of this action?

What we have done is that from this week onwards we have asked the teachers who are all around the country - to monitor the situation. There are becoming workers who have lost their jobs and haven't got any food on the table so with the assistance from ICFTU that came in last week, we will be making food parcels and rations available to them and this exercise is now going on and as soon as we determine who the real needy are we will be prepared to provide them with full assistance.

And also school children who have to change schools - as you know there is a large group of people - about 130 people were taken from one area outside Suva to Lautoka to a sanctuary and they are being looked after by people in the Western Division. But should they remain there, then we have to look after the new uniforms, the school books and the rest of the things that goes with it. But that is later on. At this point in time if there is a shortage in anybody's house we are prepared to make the rations available to them.

Also through the Red Cross we are coordinating action, together with the indigenous Fijian Mothers' Group, and also the Women's Rights Group - we are working together with all these groups.

You have been in Australia lobbying both State and Federal politicians. What are you asking for?

There are a whole range of initiatives that we have agreed with ICFTU to be put onto the table. Bans is only one part of it. We are asking for sporting bans; we are asking for aid assistance to be halted. We are asking them to take away the military assistance they give to Fiji. We are asking them also to ask other governments to look into the ways and means of stopping this group of terrorists, together with the people who work behind the scenes, acting with them, in overthrow of the democratically elected government, not to be recognised by any of the countries outside Fiji.

As you know at this point in time Speight and his group are involved in negotiations with the Army in finalising a list of some kind of civilian government. And it is important to note that when the military took over power from the President they told us very clearly that the reason they had come out was because they wanted to bring law and order into the country and that was the only focus.

And they also said to the judiciary, the bureaucracy will be left as it is - as it was in the old Constitution, and the law will remain intact. All the other laws will remain intact, and there is a Decree to that effect. However, after having taken out the second Decree they went in and promulgated Decree number five about the Justice Decree, in which the Chief Justice has ruled Supreme Court, which was then signed by the Commodore. He has made changes to the judicial system, for which the judges are very upset as you know, and there are letters from the Law Society against that.

Similarly, last week they took out another Decree about the Public Servants Decree, in which the Civil Service have taken away the rights of people to have appeals. So what we can see is the Military, over a period of time, instead of just looking at the law and order, is actually becoming a functioning political arm of the government - Which they promised they won't do by a Decree earlier.

Therefore we want to continue to focus, not only on George Speight, but on the Military to be checked too on what they are doing. And as you know, under the martial law that we are in, it is very hard to have any gathering or any public uprising. However, there is a very large, silent protest going on by means of signatures that have been collecting, and there has been an overwhelming response to that.

And we are trying to lobby, with the civil societies and countries like Australia and New Zealand that they must act very quickly and isolate Fiji . Put them in the deep freezer so the people like George don't get tempted do these things again, every now and then.

When Mahendra Chaudry is finally released what do you think he will do?

There have been people who have been able to see him inside in the last four or five weeks .

He has been saying to them, to us, to maintain the pressure and escalate it. Otherwise - without pressure - he knows things won't happen.

The treatment he and his colleagues are getting is inhumane. Mahendra was bashed up. His son was also bashed up. They haven't been able to do any exercises at all, except for two or three times, in the last five weeks. He has been asking us from the inside, with little scanty notes that he has been able to smuggle outside to keep up the public campaigns, to keep up the pressure.

He believes that if the Military steps in and runs things, then we are going to go through a repeat of what happened after the Rabuka Coups. Another 12 years, slow years of process to get back to where we were just a month ago. Chaudry is worried that the final end with the military in charge is a new discriminatory Constitution, a Constitution which will not uphold human rights and those sort of issues.

Do you consider that a released Mahendra Chaudhry might set up and lead an alternative government to the one imposed by Speight and the Military. A government which reflects the democratically elected People's Coalition ?

I think that is the direction he will take. Knowing Mr Chaudhry very well, and working with him for many years, very closely Chaudhry will drive the agenda towards establishing an alternative-in-exile government. I think generally people will support him because he has got the largest numbers, freely elected, in a Constitutional Parliament.

Don't forget that George Speight who is taken our Fiji through all this, hasn't yet shown he has a truly popular mandate. Except for a few provinces he has no demonstrated widespread support. The Military said they will take over to bring back the law and order. They haven't got the mandate. George Speight hasn't got a mandate.

Really, actually for the masses of people Mahendra Chaudry is the only one who has got the mandate. And if there is a call for an election, a free election, he will win again.

One of the main issues in Parliament, just before the coup, was the introduction of new labour laws that Mahendra Chaudry had promised in the election. What is their fate?

Just before the coup Chaudry was directing - and succeeding - in policies for economic recovery; as well as transparency and isolation of corrupt practices in the Civil Service and the government departments.

You've heard of the mahogany timber deal? George Speight was involved in that shady deal. Mahendra Chaudhry was looking at that deal. He didn't like what he saw. He wanted to downstream milling and give the benefits to the people rather than some elites who were happy making shady deals with the outside world.

The labour laws were part of the economic reforms which Chaudhry has been fighting for for years first as a trade union leader, then as Labour leader.

We had all been fighting for these laws for the last 12 years. It was important for the whole labour movement in Fiji.

The legislation was there, prepared by the Minister for Labour. It had gone as a Bill into the Parliament. It was only a matter of days for it to be passed.

The Employers Federation were jumping up and down. They were about to be curtailed. They wouldn't be able to take away the rights of the workers to join unions.

Union rights would have been returned , they would have been able to act like we had before Rabuka's coups in 1987. Our unions organising strengths would have increased, especially in the manufacturing area and the tax free zone areas, where the large masses of workers are now employed.

The Fiji unions would have taken a strong stand in the new factories and would demand better pay conditions, better working conditions and better safety standards.

Many employers, like that Halabe of the Fij-Australia Business Council, would have been set back. Employers like him have the view that Chaudry shouldn't ever be in government.

And therefore, employers like him were somehow behind the scenes helping Speight to organise this coup?

I don't doubt that. There is a great belief in Fiji that employer officials have assisted not George Speight, but the organisers of the anti-Chaudhry march which led up to the coup.

( On the day of the coup there was a march through the streets of Suva. A group of armed militants, along with George Speight, broke off from the march and took the Prime Minister and his MPs hostage.)

They (the employer reps) supported the militants, the marchers by giving them money for bus fares, providing them food and getting them to assemble at the right time.

What would you like to see happen to the people that are behind the coup?

I think New Zealand has taken the initiative of releasing a list of names, saying 85 people are banned, not allowed into New Zealand. I would like to see that initiative spread to other countries and to the relatives and business associates of the people who took part in the coup.

This important initiative could be increased by studying the financial transactions of these people in the lead up to the coup. There assets should be frozen in New Zealand and in Australia.

If they try to come to Australia, they try to come to New Zealand, they should be treated as illegal immigrants. There rights to freely travel and do business should be taken away from them and they should not be allowed in countries where democracy and civic culture is alive.

The problem is going to come for unionis in Australia when the hostages are released. There will be mountingf pressure on Australian unions to lift the bans - straight away. What do you think we should be doing?

When Bill Mansfield, the ACTU Assistant Secretary, was in Fiji earlier this week we discussed this issue. We are prepared to review our position at that point in time.

The union bans, you know, are very important but they are only one part of the campaign. Other issues might be pursued through the union movement and through our colleagues in your Federal and State Parliaments.

Finally, how do you see the situation unfolding over the next couple of weeks?

I doubt that George Speight will leave the Parliamentary complex and let his hostages go without all his demands being met.

At first the Military said they will not give in to all the demands. But then, over a period of time , each one of the things that George Speight has wanted ihe gets from the military. It gradually unfolds in his favour, and he knows it.

He is acting in that manner. I think there is a bit of complicity from the outside, from the military, to allow him to get what he wants. If it doesn't get all resolved in the next couple of days it will not get resolved. George Speight has already said he is prepared to go for months or to go for years. And then there will be, at some point in time, there will be a very public uprising. Nobody will plan it. Nobody will control it. That is certain. I can't tell but I think we are looking at 12 days maybe more, maybe less, before the public says enough of George Speight.

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  Issue 59 contents

»	STOP PRESS: Get on Board Moves Virtual
»	Orange at Risk - Call for City's Help
»	Unions to Get Equity in New Computer Deal
»	Aussie Competition Laws Protect Fijian Terrorists
»	Union Rat Sinks Industrial Laws
»	Olympic Rail Deal Struck for Games Period
»	GST Fears for Union Delegates
»	No Cigars for Casino High Rollers
»	Frustration Boils Over Olympics Blowout
»	Support for Campaign Against TAFE Cuts
»	Private Sector Health Workers Seek Pay Equity
»	Bosses Hoist on Own Petard
»	Construction Industry Assists East Timor Training
»	AFL-CIO Leader to Address Congress
»	Full ACTU Congress Coverage on LaborNet

»	The Soapbox
»	The Locker Room
»	Trades Hall
»	Tool Shed

»	Freudian Slip
»	Volunteers in Policing
»	Tax Farce

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