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  Issue No 56 Official Organ of LaborNet 02 June 2000  

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Interview

When the War is Over

Interview with Peter Lewis

Teachers Federation chief Sue Simpson has just come through the industrial dispute of a lifetime. But where to now for her members?

 
 

Sue Simpson

You are at the end of what has been a long dispute. What has been the main advances that have come out of it for teachers in NSW

The dispute has not just been the usual stoush between teachers, government and the Department over salaries. What has made this dispute so much more bitter than previous disputes has been that this dispute has also been about the role of the Teachers Federation and whether the Teachers Federation should have a role in education decision making and educational change.

Now, there have certainly been some people in the Government and the Department who have just wanted the Federation removed from having any say over educational policy. They tried to destroy the Federation during this dispute. And that explains in many ways the hard line that was taken - of not talking to the Federation for such a long time; the personal attacks on the Federation leadership.

Despite this the Federation has ensured that it remains a player in education. We have managed to keep at bay an agenda to deregulate teachers' working conditions. It's an agenda that is very much a Coalition-style agenda of trying to remove a union like the Teachers Federation from the equation. But they have failed, the members have remained united throughout this very long dispute when there were attacks on them, and certainly attempts to divide the membership from one another.

Did it surprise you that this attitude came from a Labor Government, and particularly the Education Minister, who had a background in teaching?

It didn't surprise me. The Premier made it quite clear following the last election, when he gained quite a large majority, that he was attempting to re-position the ALP in NSW. He was wanting to reduce the influence of the union movement on the ALP and transform it into a Party that appeals more to the aspirational classes.

The Government was, from the information we have, very upset and annoyed at the Teachers Federation having a twenty-four hour strike in the period before the election in March 1999. The Government runs a populist line and has relied on polling that has shown that whenever they take on teachers their popularity increases. We are also are not affiliated to the ALP. We pay a price for our independence.

The disappointing side of it is that the Premier does take education seriously. He claims to be an "Education Premier". But unfortunately for teachers the Premier has outmoded, old fashioned views and it is inevitable that we come into conflict.

You're say the Premier at the moment is old fashioned and conservative on education?

He is certainly very much a traditionalist. The comments that he has made publicly show support for a traditional curriculum. Now, there is nothing wrong with History being taught in schools and an emphasis on grammar, teaching spelling properly and the importance of knowing facts. Teachers feel they do this. The Premier is appealing to those people in the community who thinks that standards have declined. There are a lot of new things happening in education and teachers would certainly prefer it that more support was given to the tremendous change that is occurring rather than reinforcing a basic education. Teachers often feel insulted because they are already teaching spelling and grammar. But they're doing so much more than that.

The other thing about the government's handling of the dispute was they were working hand in hand with the Telegraph to run quite a vicious campaign against the Federation. Did you learn anything about the way that the media operates and particularly about the way this media operates with the government?

It shocked teachers but in this job you have to have an understanding of the environment in which you are operating. In NSW the number of people who actually have power to make decisions is very few. So you have a few powerful people in the Government and those people go and lunch with the editors of newspapers. So you certainly don't believe that there is editorial independence in the newspapers. Teachers have come to accept that editorial writers in both the Telegraph and the Herald get things terribly confused. Teachers realise they form a large occupational group. The Teachers Federation is a large union and a union that has power, so we are fair game for the newspaper editorialists and the headline writers.

When you are going into a salaries dispute that you certainly want to do your best to maintain a reasonable opinion by the public. You know that it is always going to be hard because teachers are such a large occupational group, because teachers' salaries are a large proportion of the education budget and there is a flow on to the private schools. What has been different this time has been the nature of the attacks. But then that in part reflects the fact that it's a dispute that went on for such a long time, and it wasn't just about salaries. The Government was very much in the game of trying to prove they run public education not the Teachers Federation. Now, the Teachers Federation is not seeking to run public education, but is wanting to remain a player.

So, I am not surprised at what the newspapers do, and given the level of industrial action, it was to be expected. I think what is disappointing is that we don't have the range of newspaper ownership that can subject to criticism the actions of the Government, but then they are also much more secretive in the way in which they make their decisions.

On the day of the February 9th strike before the last state election there was a photo of me with the Dunce's cap on the front page. What was quite an interesting footnote to this dispute, was when Maralyn Parker in the Telegraph put the Dunce's cap on John Aquilina, and the information we had was that he was not particularly pleased about that. So, the Telegraph can certainly have its front pages but there is some interesting reflective comment nevertheless in some of their columns that certainly one would have hoped forced the Government and the Department - or some people in the Government and the Department to change what they were doing.

One of the criticisms of the teachers throughout the dispute was that the leadership had basically reached agreement but they couldn't carry through their Executive. There was that line coming through that the Teachers Federation suffers from an excess of democracy. How do you respond to those sort of comments?

Well, certainly compared to many other organisations, we are very democratic. If you compare us to the government - we don't know what happens in the Cabinet; we don't get Cabinet papers. With the Department, we don't know what happens with their Senior Executive Service - we don't get those papers.

Certainly there are advantages and disadvantages of democracy. On the one hand by reporting regularly to our members and by members directly, or indirectly, participating in the decisions, the membership has remained united through this long campaign. Certainly there are disadvantages - you can't always make decisions as quickly as you would like, and you always know too that everything that you say can be put in the public arena. The advantage that the Government and the Department have had at various times is that they have been able to proceed by stealth and to use the element of surprise. But if you have a strike, well people have got to vote for it.

So, on the one hand you can lose a tactical advantage by being so open. But on the other hand, you have that great tactical advantage that your negotiators are going in there from a position of strength because your members are behind you.

Is there anything you would have done differently during the dispute, looking back on it?

One of the advantages of democracy is that you can have a great deal of debate about what your various tactics are. One of the debates that occurred early on was about how much do you spend in industrial action, trying to get an offer from the government, as opposed to when you have got the offer, using your industrial action to maximise your negotiating position. So certainly we found with this dispute, that strike action was used just to get decent negotiations. There is the spectre of an enormous amount of industrial action yet, when it actually came down to have fair dinkum negotiations, it didn't take all that long to get where we were.

It took about three months of negotiations. When you look at what the Government and the Department were wanting to do in terms of a total deregulatory agenda, to spend some three months negotiating to maintain teachers' hours, to maintain teachers having some control over the span of hours they work and be able to get a Treasury funded salary increase, that all has been some achievement. It happened comparatively quickly.

I think at any one stage we could have made decisions to do things in different ways. Within a democracy the majority has the say and that's the way you go. I'm sure the other side knows that perhaps they should have done things a little differently.

So where should the educational debate head now?

With the salaries dispute over what we have to be looking at is where public education is going. What has happened over the last ten years is that governments, whether they are Federal governments or State governments haven't been treating public education as their prime responsibility. They have been responding more to the views of the aspirational class; trying to encourage choice in schooling. But that choice in schooling is coming at the expense of public education. It's creating a crisis of confidence in public education.

The other issue that we have to come to grips with is the matter of standards in teaching. That comes to the question of the profession's control over curriculum content and the question of what constitutes the skills and experience that a competent teacher should have.

Now, unfortunately attempts to get a teacher registration board here in NSW got scuttled, because the Premier, when he launched that, saw it as a means of getting rid of dud teachers. But the teaching profession really needs to be able to regain some control over its practices; be seen by the public to have clearly defined standards. And the profession needs to know that its high standards come from what it considers to be good professional practice.

Finally, as we see more stories of people shifting from public to private education, are you optimistic about the future of public education?

The figures of the continuing shift to private schools is enormously worrying and I don't think anybody can be optimistic about the future of public education. The figures are showing that it is not just a drift of students in the senior years of school, or of high school, but it is also occurring in the primary school area. I'm certainly feeling pessimistic in that this is being encouraged by government funding, but it also says something about Australian society that egalitarian principles and the notion that you go to your local public school where you mix with all kids are going by the wayside for the "aspirational" class. Parents want to do the best thing for their kids, they also want to be seen as successes. Unfortunately that is being increasingly judged by whether you can send your kids to a private school.

Parents in this day and age are feeling that they want their children to mix with a narrower group of people. They feel that that protects their children. The sense of local community is being lost as parents are prepared to have their kids travel distances to mix in an environment that they believe they have greater control over - to protect their kids from so called undesirable influences.

So it is depressing that people are walking away from what the Teachers Federation and organisations like the Parents and Citizens have seen as an institution that's been fundamental to Australian democracy towards a society based on mixing with a narrow group. People are living in fear of one another. And there is a view of well, you get something better if you pay for it.


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In this issue
Features
*  Interview: When the War is Over
Teachers Federation chief Sue Simpson has just come through the industrial dispute of a lifetime. But where to now for her members?
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*  Politics: The Beazley Manifesto
Read the full transcript of Kim Beazley's Fraser Lecture develiered this week, where he unveiled Labor's new industrial relations platform.
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*  Unions: Dudded on the Dock of the Bay
Until a few weeks ago Allan and Beverley Crelley had never ever heard of SERCO the big London multinational that specialises in winning contracts from governments committed to outsourcing their workers.
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*  History: The Long March for Justice
Against the backdrop of the Walk for Reconciliation across the Sydney Harbour Bridge that took place last Sunday, it is worthwhile recognising that trade unionists were actively promoting the issue decades ago.
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*  International: UK Unions Turn the Corner
Union membership is on the rise for the first time in 20 years, indicating an early response to union recognition legislation set to come into effect next month.
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*  Work/Time/Life: Flexible Clerks Save Hours
The Australian Services Union has successfully blocked an attempt by wholesaler Davids Limited to force clerical staff at the company's Blacktown office from flexible working hours to a standard 38 hour week.
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*  Review: Who Really Won the War?
It might be being pulped for a reference to serial-suitor Peter Costello, but 'Waterfront' has sparked some lively debate about our recent industrial history.
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*  Satire: Gosper's New Torch Role
A week after he was excluded from the Olympic torch relay as a result of public criticism, Kevan Gosper has been reinstated by SOCOG President Michael Knight for a special project.
*

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»  Labour Movement Mourns Loss of Neil Marshall (11th June 1943 - 31st May 2000)
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Columns
»  The Soapbox
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»  Sport
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»  Trades Hall
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»  Tool Shed
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Letters to the editor
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»  Solidarity Against Reith
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»  Time for Real Tax Reform
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»  Fiji Protests A Disgrace
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