Interview

Talking Turkey

Interview with Bryan Dawe

A full transcript of an important interview with the Minister for Workplace Relations, the Hon Peter Reith.

	Workplace Relations Minister - Peter Reith

Thanks for joining us. We are coming today live from Parliament House, Canberra. I'm joined by the Minister for Workplace Relations, Mr Peter Reith. Mr Reith, thank you very much for coming in.

Nice to be with you Bryan.

Are you comfortable?

I make a living, Bryan, yes.

How are you feeling at the moment?

Well, it's been an exhausting time in government in this country. I mean we have had a couple of years of very draining industrial disputes.

Yes, they can be pretty exhausting can't they.

Yes, they, they can.

It takes a lot out of you.

It does, yes.

Yes. Why is that again?

Well, we started a lot of them and the effort of keeping them going is gargantuan. I mean, it's a ...

Yes, and you've got a Republic referendum at the moment?

We do, yes, in November, yes.

Did you work out which Monarchist was going to write the question?

Yes, John Howard's written the question and he's done a very beautiful job of it in my view. He's running the republican debate.

Yes. He's opposed to the republic isn't he?

He is, yes. It's going beautifully to my mind...

Do you think John Howard ....

It's going very well in this country. Can I make that point.

Sure. Do you think John Howard's leadership might be in trouble?

No no no, I think a lot of people are behind John.

Not the electorate obviously.

Not the electorate obviously, no. But a lot of the important people are behind John Howard.

Yes, so he could be in trouble. What is going to happen with the referendum? I mean, you're at odds with the Minister on the whole question of a republic aren't you?

No, no, no, no.

Yes you are.

There are a lot of aspects of this about which John Howard and I are in complete agreeance, but that's not to say ...

Yes, but there does seem to be a fundamental difference between you though, isn't there.

No, there's not....

Well come on Mr Reith ...

There's not a fundamental difference...

You disagree about who's going to run the country.

No. It's not about who's going to run the country. Bryan, the country's going to be run by the same people who always run the country. This is about the Head of State. You won't notice any difference in the way the country's run. It'll be run by exactly the same people.

But you're a direct election man aren't you.

I am. I think the President should be elected by, you know, the people. This is after all a domon, demung ...

A democracy?

Yeah, one of those, and obviously that's the way that the thing should work.

So this should be done at a secret ballot?

At a secret ballot, yes. The bloke they want, the bloke they approve of, that's the bloke they should be electing.

Yes. Or she.

No, no, no. My point is that the bloke the majority of people vote for should be the President.

Yes. Or She.

Oh, men and women all vote in a demung, doming...

A democracy

Yeah. And men and women all get a go.

Yes. I mean a woman President, I'm talking about.

A woman President?

Well, we've got a woman Queen.

We do too. I wonder if John knows that. I might have a word with him.

Mr Reith. You are the Minister for Workplace Relations and Small Business?

I am. Yes Bryan, I accept that allegation. And of course, it's been a bit of a golden period in some of these very important areas.

Yes. A golden age in the workplace?

I was thinking more of a golden age in the Ministry for Workplace Relations.

And small business?

Small business?

Yes.

No, we fixed that. We've got a GST coming in in a minute. You won't see much more of that. I mean uh...

Mr Reith, the stockmarket is in overdrive obviously?

It is, yes. 40% Bryan of all Australians own shares. 40%.

Why is there so much money in the stock market at the moment?

There's nowhere else for it to go. A lot of it is in super funds. I mean the super funds have got an absolute fortune, and it's got to be in the market, there's nowhere else for it...

Sales of luxury vehicles are booming?

Sales of luxury vehicles are booming!

Who's buying those?

Who's buying them?

Yes.

I imagine the people who are looking after the super funds have got to have something to drive about in Bryan. I mean ...

Mr Reith, to what do you attribute the spectacular success that we are having in this country at the moment?

In Australia?

Yes. Leadership?

Leadership it is, Bryan. Strong ...

Gutsy?

Imaginative - gutsy (good word) - gutsy, imaginative, professional, farsighted leadership.

Yes. This sounds like you again.

Bryan. Don't try and trick me. Don't try and trick me.

I'm not trying to trick you. I'm suggesting ...

Look, I'm well known for my loyalty to the current Prime Minister, and indeed to the current Treasurer. I have an iron-clad and non-negotiable loyalty to the people who are currently in those positions.

Quite frankly ....

I beg your pardon?

Well, you normally say 'quite frankly' when you are making statements of that kind. Don't you?

Statements of what kind, Bryan?

Well, you just said current leadership. I mean, when you use that expression ...

Well, Bryan, nothing's permanent is it? I mean, let's be clear about this. I'm simply reflecting the existential dilemma that faces all of us. I mean, I'm in the same position myself. Personally, for example, I am myself currently the Minister for um....

Workplace Relations

Whatever it is...yes.

Quite frankly

I beg your pardon?

It's just that you always say 'quite frankly' when you're....

Bryan, quite frankly, I don't know quite what you're talking about.

OK. Minister, can we now just very quickly talk about the Oakdale Miners?

Oohh! I'd rather not talk about the Oakdale Miners. I mean, if it's all the same with you Bryan ...could we just perhaps ...

Mr Reith, with due respect, you got rolled in Cabinet on this one.

I did not get rolled in Cabinet. I DID NOT GET ROLLED IN CABINET. And especially not by John Fahey. ESPECIALLY NOT!

Yes, well as late as a few days ago you were unequivocally saying there'd be no special payment to the Oakdale Miners. But then the Government announces a $6 million package three days later.

What a great result I got for those people. What a great result!!!

But you were the opposition to this.

I beg your pardon?

You were in opposition to this.

Bryan, look! Have a look at what I said. Bearing in mind the nuance and subtlety of the way I expressed it at the time.

Such as?

Well ... Some concern for the position of the ....

Fairness?

Yes, for the fairness of the issues and the position ...

Compassion?

And some compassion for the families of those involved.

Did you really say that?

I might have.

Well, you could have really not said it either.

You're getting a bit hypothetical here I think Bryan.

Alright. Let's move on ...

Stick to the actual!

OK. You announced the results of the Productivity Commission Inquiry into the Construction Industry didn't you?

That's right, yes.

Is this preparing the groundwork for an assault on the construction industry?

Now, listen Bryan, your language needs to be ... Bear in mind, this is not an assault. You're characterising this as an assault. 'Assault' is not the right word. It is not an appropriate ...

Alright. I don't want to be semantic but how would you put it?

I would characterise this Bryan, as the government engaging in vigorous intercourse with the construction industry.

Alright. When you've previously engaged in vigorous intercourse, as you put it, with an industry, you've tried to precede that with a Productivity Commission Report. I mean, you did this with the ...

Have you got any evidence at all that supports this extravagant claim Bryan?

Waterfront, coal industry ..

I beg your pardon?

Waterfront and coal industry.

A simple 'yes' will do Bryan. 'Yes, I've got plenty of evidence'.

And is it true that these Productivity Commission reports all seem to come to the same conclusions? Each one of them?

What, break the unions....

Dismantle industrial protection

Sack the workers and get a multinational accounting firm ...

To come and clean up the scraps, yes.

Well, I think that's, you know ...that's the way ...

It's fairly callous. Some people might see this as fairly callous.

Bryan, ...

Someone might see this as economic rationalism gone mad.

You're getting a bit rhetorical now Bryan. Can I remind you you're not on the ABC now.

Alright.

You're not on the ABC.

Thank you for reminding me, Minister, thank you.

We need to deal with the real world.

OK, well how do you think economic rationalism is going?

I think economic rationalism is going very well Bryan. And you've got to understand, in order to discuss this - it's a good question and I'm answering is seriously - what we are trying to do in this country is to build a new nation. Clearly we cannot do that unless we create wealth. Now, this is going to happen in a hurry. It's tough and a lot of people are going to get hurt. It's quite radical. You obviously can't make an omelette without breaking a few um.....

Heads?

Unions. And that's what we are going to do.

Do you think you are an impartial umpire in industrial relations. Do you see yourself that way?

I do think I'm an impartial umpire, and I pride myself on my impartiality Bryan.

Why are you accused then, of running an anti-union campaign?

Only by idiots in the pro-union side am I accused of that.

What do the people on the anti-union side think?

They agree with me. They think I'm much more fair. They think I'm a fair-minded person, obviously.

But you've stated that you're not impartial. That you are on the side of making profits. On the side of private capital.

Bryan, I'm completely consistent in my statements and if you go back over my record, obviously there are two sides in these things.

Remind me, two sides?

Well, the government and big business.

So, where do the workers and the unions fit in?

Well, we can deal with them somewhere down the road. Read the papers. We'll keep people informed Bryan.

Mr Reith, can I just read you something?

Yes. Who wrote it?

It's a media release accompanying the Productivity Commission Report.

Oh yes, one of my favourites.

"The construction industry is a lawless jungle of union goons riding roughshod over the rights of courageous small operators. The industry is characterised by anarchy, violence, and a disregard for the sanctity of private property. At the top of this malaise is a small cabal of Marxist misfits that refuse to recognise the principles of enterprise and freedom and how they've triumphed in the 20th Century".

Beautifully phrased Bryan. Beautifully phrased.

What's your response to that?

Well, you know. I mean, quite frankly ...

Even handed?

Pardon?

Even handed?

I think it is even handed. I think it is very even handed.

Not just a tad over the top?

No, I don't think it's over the top.

Quite frankly ...

Quite frankly, Bryan, I think people in this country have had it up to here with this for far too long.

Can I read you something else?

Ohhh...!!

Just quickly

Just the edited highlights, Bryan.

Reports recently issued about the construction industry. One report by the University of Newcastle says the construction industry in Australia ranks at the top - the top - of the OECD nations in terms of labour productivity. Access Economics and World Competitive Practices ranks Australia in the top three.

Bryan, you've got to appreciate that the union movement in this country has for a very long time engaged in propaganda.

Whoa, whoa. Excuse me, just a small point...

That's one of the things they do.

Mr Reith, wasn't Access Economics the very group you used to develop and promote the Fightback Package in 1993?

Look, quite frankly Bryan ...

How do you account for the fact, really, that the Sydney Olympic Building Program was completed under time, and on budget?

Good management, Bryan. Good leadership. Good management. A very well managed project .

May I remind you again, the construction industry, it says here, 'characterised by anarchy, violence and a complete disregard for' ...

Bryan, what is your point? What is your point?

Well, it could be suggested Minister, that the Sydney Games can now be claimed to be the only Olympic construction program in the last 20 years to deliver that sort of efficiency you have been going on about for the last five years.

You've had that Michael Knight in your ear, haven't you Bryan?

No, I haven't. Now Minister ...

How is he? You obviously spend a bit of time with him.

Minister, you are against the closed shop in the workplace.

I am, ..

Yes, you are

...I am in the construction industry, Bryan. And let me be clear about what I'm saying here. This is the position: You cannot get work in that industry if you are not a member of the union. It is compulsory.

Or the waterfront.

Pardon?

Or the waterfront.

Yes. You are going to have to be a member of the union or you can't get a job. It's not voluntary. There's no freedom of association. It is a very important point Bryan and it is an issue of principle!

What was that principle?

It's an issue of principle, Bryan.

Sure. Are you a member of a closed shop union yourself?

No. I'm a member of the Law Society of Victoria.

Is that compulsory?

No, of course it's not compulsory.

No, I mean for lawyers?

Oh, yes, obviously it's compulsory for lawyers Bryan, but ...

But only for lawyers?

No one else is forced to join the Victorian Law Society.

Can you get work if you are not a member of this ...?

Can you do law work if you're not a lawyer, Bryan?

Yeah.

Bryan, of course you can't. You're not going to be very happy are you, if you've got a legal problem and you go along to someone who doesn't know what he's doing.

No, that would be terrible. But it wouldn't matter with a building?

Bryan, quite frankly, I don't know quite where you are going with any of this.

What I'm trying to do is to get you to explain the differences between the Law Society of Victoria and a union.

Bryan, look, there is absolutely nothing in common between the rather nice kind of chap that you run into at the Law Society and some of these mongrels who work in the bloody Australian building unions, if that's what you're getting at. There's no similarity at all! They're way down the food chain.

So, this is why you've got private investigators running around ripping down union posters on building sites?

Quite frankly Bryan, that is an issue of aesthetics. Look. We've got the Olympics here next year. We have got to have the place looking nice, don't we? You'd agree with that.

So, it's becoming illegal now to express a pro-union viewpoint in this country is it?

It's not ... as yet ...no, Bryan. But we haven't finished the reform programme yet. We'll keep you informed.

Now, moving on. We've released a statement, or you've released a statement about the Government's position on industrial reform.

Actually, we haven't released a statement yet. But we've prepared one.

Yes, but you've got it there, haven't you.

I have indeed.

Would I like to read from it?

Yes.

I haven't got my glasses.

You can have my glasses if you want.

Are you short sighted?

No, I'm long sighted.

I'm rather famously short sighted. I don't know whether you read the papers.

Well, I've got a copy of the statement here so maybe we could do it together. I'll read...

Well, I'll have a go at reading it and you correct me if I go wrong.

Off you go.

OK. Well, I'm reading from the beginning

Fine

'The Reith government ...'

Howard government

I beg your pardon?

The second word there is 'Howard'

Oh, sorry. It says 'Howard'.

Mmm

'The Howard Government is dedicated to performing the Austrian rail-station system' ..

'Reforming the Australian Taxation System'.

Oh, yes. That would make more sense wouldn't it.

Yes.

'It will continue to maximise disruption in the Australian workplace'.

'Increase productivity' I think it says.

Oh, sorry, it's miles away. 'And consequently will be continuing with its policy of class hatred'.

'Industrial reform'.

Good Lord. Is it?

Yeah, you've jumped a line. You're down here.

Oh, I beg your pardon. '...with an organised campaign of provoking Australians...'

'Providing Australians'.

'To despise one another...'

'To develop together'

'As we approach'.... Is it 'approach'?

Yes

Well, that's not bad is it.

No, you're doing well

'The 20th Century'

'The 21st Century'

I beg your pardon?

Wrong century

Oh. "So I would sack ......'

'Say to'

Sorry. 'I would say to all you mongrels...'

'To all Australians'

'We're after your arse'

'Wherever you are'

'And we'll get you'

'Wish you well'

Yes. And that seems to be the finish. How was it?

Good. The rest of it was great. Pretty spot on.

Good.

So, do you have any final words to the audience?

Oh God. They're not still there are they?

Well, we've got your names. Tell them we've got all their names. They might be getting a visit from the OEA.

What's the OEA?

It's just a nice little idea we picked up from Suharto.

Right. Thank you very much for ...

We've got your name too Bryan.

Thank you very much and goodbye.

You're fired.

  View entire issue - print all of the articles!

  Issue 28 contents

»	Shock New Stats! Readers Desert Newspapers
»	Surfing the Wave
»	Vizard Smokescreen Clouds Computer Deal
»	Youth Wages: Is Bevis a Butthead?
»	Which Bank Harasses Sick Workers?
»	SOCOG Eyes Wide Shut on Games Gear
»	Scully Uses Reith First Wave Against Rail Workers
»	Reith Building Blitz Hits Bum Note
»	Entitlements Focus Shifts Back to Woodlawn
»	Fresh South Coast Ballot Called
»	"Big Drum Up" For East Timor
»	Eric Lee Public Forum

»	Guest Report
»	Sport
»	Trades Hall
»	Piers Watch

»	Vizard: Net Content Is Vital
»	No, No, No to MSN Model
»	The Vizard deal. Is it another great deal for you!!!!???

Notice Board
- Check out the latest events

Latest Issue

View entire latest issue
- print all of the articles!

Previous Issues

Subject index

Search all issues

© 1999-2000 Labor Council of NSW

LaborNET is a resource for the labour movement provided by the Labor Council of NSW

[ Privacy Statement | Disclaimer | Credits ]

LaborNET is proudly created, designed and programmed by Social Change Online for the Labor Council of NSW