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Issue No. 140 | 14 June 2002 |
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Abbott's Rule of Law
Interview: Party Girl Unions: Touch One, Touch All Industrial: Condition Critical International: Innocence Lost History: Strange Bedfellows Organising: Just Say No Review: Choosing Life Beneath The Clouds Poetry: Did We Make a Big Mistake
The Soapbox The Dressing Room The Locker Room Week in Review Bosswatch
 Luke and LearnDue CreditTom's FooleryMore LathamMore Tom
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Interview Party GirlInterview with Peter Lewis
It's the centenary of female suffrage this week. How much is there to celebrate for women? I think there's a lot to celebrate, but that's not to underestimate the long way that we still have to go to achieve genuine equality for women, in every sphere of life and in the political arena as well. Its ironic that we celebrate the fact that Australia led the world in allowing women the right to vote and stand in elections, but it actually took us 41 years after the act was passed in 1902 before we had the first Labor representative in the Federal Parliament, Dorothy Tangney in the Senate and in NSW we had to wait until 1983 before we had our first women in the Lower House Jeanette McHugh. So you can see that the struggle has been a long and winding road, as they say, but we are certainly making good progress, but still with a lot to do in the future. What's your take on the current debate in the ALP around quotas? Some worry that by putting a numerical weighting it just makes gender another factor in the factional power game. Do you think quotas have delivered good results? I think so, I mean if you look back at 1995, the representation of women in the lower house, was only 9�%, an absolute appalling state of play, when you consider that women make up over half the Australian population. So without the affirmative action strategy that was adopted by the national conference of the ALP, we wouldn't be in the position that we are today, where Labor women now hold 20 seats in the House of Representatives (30%). It wouldn't, in my judgement, have happened without the affirmative action commitment. It was the same in the union movement, when we had to move, had to redress the injustice of the under representation of women and the only way you can do it within the kind of patriarchal institutional framework in which women have operated, was to do it via a rule changes. Leaving it just to the effluxion of time would have meant that we would have been on this quest for ever. So it hastened the goal which was to ensure that our party and the union movement was much more representative and reflective of its base. The Conservative parties have also managed big increases, without quotas. Is there anything that Labor can learn from those parties about the way they've gone about changing their profile of members? Well it's interesting that in the last few years, the representation of Liberal women has improved. But that said, the women in the Liberal Party, are clustered in the more marginal seats. If there is a swing our way, numbers of them might end up losing their seats. Also their representation is not as good as ours in the Lower House. The seven NSW women are all from traditionally safe Labor seats; that's an important breakthrough. How far do you think the ALP is off from having a women's factional warlord? Oh, a long long way off. I noticed Susan Ryan's comments this week in the media and I think we've got be careful that we don't see the positive increase in representation of women in isolation from the outcome. I mean, it's well and good to be able to pride ourself on the fact that our representation has achieved the targets that we set, but you've then got to ask the question , "ok, we've got these additional women there, but to what extent are they exercising power and influence?". While the most senior woman from NSW Janice Crosio, has the position of Whip, we don't have any NSW female representation in shadow ministry or shadow cabinet. There is a handful of women in the shadow ministry, but certainly not in the proportion that one would want to achieve through an affirmative action strategy. In terms of the factions, they are well and truly dominated and organised by men. I don't know necessarily that that's where women want to be. I think the Party is starting to realise that the factional system in the last decade has imposed some rigidity. I think women are going to enhance the fluidity within the party structures, rather than aspiring to be factional chieftains. Beyond the EMILY's List fundraising, are there networks developing of women across the factions related to specific issues? Yes we've got a very active Status of Women caucus committee, which has made a submission to the Hawke-Wran Enquiry, pointing out some of the failings that they perceived in the last federal election. It suggests that women in the party are a great resource, that have been under utilised more particularly so in the last federal election campaign. Now that committee is operating on a cross factional basis, and I think in the next couple of months we will be setting out a long term agenda and framework for the operations of that committee. I'm delighted that already, through the influence of women in leadership positions like Jenny Macklin and Carmen Lawrence, the introduction of paid maternity leave is now a high priority for federal Labor. So it's really important that in being there, we don't lose sight of why we're there and that we keep the feminist fires burning away and influencing policy in a direction which suits the aspirations of women. Of course, one of the concerns around the whole issue on how far we've gone towards the feminist agenda is that it's still regarded as woman's business. Are there men down in Canberra that you see are picking up the ball as well? I think what we're seeing is what we see saw in the union movement, that over a period of time, the mainstream political agenda incorporates the perspectives of women into it. I'll give you just one example, in our counter response to Peter Costello's superannuation proposal, it was in fact Nick Sherry who argued very cogently about the impact of the changes on the rights of casual workers to access superannuation benefits. Here was a good example of a major political response by the ALP, focusing on the impacts that it would have on casual workers who are predominantly and overwhelmingly women. I'm starting to sense that we're not just the add on at the end of the caucus agenda, but we're in there. I've been really heartened by the fact that caucus is operating in a very democratic manner and that women are getting up and having a say about the issues that are important to them, and to the ALP's future. Personally, you've been in federal parliament more than 6 months now. Is it what you expected? I'm finding it incredibly challenging. What I'm finding fascinating is the mix of real grassroots stuff, helping local constituents with problems they have with Centrelink or the Child Support Agency, or through immigration matters and then playing a role when you go down to Canberra, in terms of framing our policies and responses on issues of national significance. It provides the best of both worlds, and I've come at a really good time, when all the policies are open for review, and I'm really on quite a steep learning curve. The last couple of weeks we've seen particularly macho images coming from federal parliament. Is there a different way that we could run parliament that would take away a bit of that testosterone?? I think the images of Question Time are a bit of a put off for women. I know men and women comment to me about what they perceive to be childish behaviour on the part of politicians. You've got to understand that once you are there in Question Time, the provocation comes from the government benches, particularly by one Tony Abbott, and so the adrenalin does start pumping. You're not just sitting there in a totally sterile atmosphere; you're engaging in the thrust of political debate and the contest of ideas. It's hard to refrain sometimes, I mean I've interjected a couple times, I try not to. I think question time is really the opportunity for the opposition to put the government under pressure and what we're finding is, it's questions without answers really. What we get is long diatribes about the 60/40 rule and about what Simon might have said 20 years ago. It's perverting the intent of Question Time and we're not going to allow the Liberals off the hook when they make far fetched accusations about people sitting on our side of the chamber. To that extent I think Mark Latham has been given the job of being a most effective counterpoint to the nonsense that we hear from the likes of Tony Abbott. The debate is currently being raised over union involvement in the ALP. As someone who's been in both institutions, what's your perspective? I think the 60/40 focus is the wrong focus. If we woke up tomorrow and the rule was 50/50, do we really think the world would have changed? You've got to look at the fact that, in NSW the Carr Government has done extremely well, in a state where 60/40 is the rule. So any suggestion that the links to the union movement are detrimental to the party is, absolutely wrong. I understand the need for Simon to modernise the party, just like Greg and Sharan and John have the responsibility of modernising the union movement and making sure that it meets the challenges of the new millennium. But modernisation doesn't mean forsaking your history and your traditions and I think that's the danger in arguing for the watering down of the links with the union movement. We have been there historically to be the political voice and arm of the industrial movement. We are here primarily to represent working people and their families and issues of concern to them. We are fundamentally a party that represents the union base, I have never heard an argument to justify diminishing our links with the unions movement. I've not heard one compelling argument for this, up until now. Does it concern you though that there does seem to be this imperitive that Labor needs to distance itself from its union base to be electable? John Howard and Tony Abbot have tried to make this an issue. We have responded to a perception rather than an issue of substance. My personal view is the links with the union movement are not an negative for Labor, because if they were, please explain why every state is run by Labor governments. Whether it be a 50/50 or a 60/40 rule, we're the elected government in every state and I think the reasons for the loss in the last federal action are far more profound than any link with the union movement. In fact the reverse could be true, a lot of my constituents say, they would like the ALP to be more gung ho about representing the aspirations of working people. That's just my view, and I guess we'll await the outcome of the Hawke-Wran Enquiry. Has distance changed your perspective on the union movement? Obviously I'm still very interested in the developments in the union movement. One of the things I think is fantastic is the number of young people who've made a commitment to work within the ranks of the union movement. That augurs really well for the future. I'm proud of the union movement in taking up the debate on the refugees/ asylum seeker issue. The NSW decision was a cross functional outcome led by the union movement and John Robertson in particular. I think it's time that the Labor Party followed suit. I mean factions play a role, but when they become a straight jacket on the free flow of ideas and policy issues, I think that's a more profound issue for the review committee, than the 60/40 rule. Finally, Helen Clark is going to the polls in New Zealand and she's the red hot favourite. Is there anything that Labor can learn from her success? Well, I think what has been amazing about the New Zealand experience is that the government is led by a woman who is electorally very popular. What can we learn from that? I think we can learn what we should already know, that having women in political roles is not an electoral liability, in fact, all the studies show a higher degree of acceptance and encouragement for women who take on those responsibilities, both in the industrial and political wings of the movement.
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