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Issue No. 125 | 22 February 2002 |
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Unfair and Dismal
Interview: If Not Now, When? Activists: Fighting Back Industrial: Croon And Divide Politics: Politics of Extinction History: Harry Bridges: International Labour Hero International: Rats in the Ranks Review: Follow The Fence, Find The Truth Satire: Howard Screws Refugee Kids: G-G Turns Blind Eye Poetry: Let It Be
The Soapbox The Locker Room Week in Review
 Dirty Politics Won't WashTom's FooleryGive Us a Spray!
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Interview If Not Now, When?
So how does a former AMWU Official come to be working at Sussex Street? That's a good question. When I left the AMWU I went to work at the ACTU and in that role I had exposure to all Unions. In that role I worked for right wing and left wing Unions. I spent last year working with the Electrical Trades Union. After that I started at Labor Council in January this year. Have you had any reaction from your former left wing colleagues that you have come into what once was the hot bed of the factions? Paul Bastian the State Secretary of the AMWU said that my transition from the left to the NSW right was now complete, so yeah there has been a reaction I suppose from some people. But it's done a bit tongue-in-cheek. Do you feel that whole idea of faction within the Union movement is breaking down? No doubt about it. I mean it really is an absurd notion to suggest that complex thinking people could be summed up in one or two words like "left" or "right" or "hard" or "soft". This point has really been driven home to me over the past two years. When I have had meaningful conversations with union leaders such as Annie Owens, Paul Bastian, Bernie Riordan, John Robertson and others, they all say the same things. Factional and sub factionalism has prevented real dialog and I think that the current generation of union leaders are on to this fact. However, I think that the influence of ALP factionalism is still holding us back. On that note, what role should a peak council, a peak union body play in grass roots campaigning? Well I think the role of the NSW Labor Council is crucial to the success or otherwise of the future of the NSW union movement. The peak council's in many countries are reviewing their role. Emphasis is being placed on supporting campaigns, supporting organising drives and generally making a stand about building power for working people. So I think the role of peak bodies is relatively clear, powerful and important. What are some examples from around the world of peak council's that are doing that. Well, you can look at New Zealand Council of Trade Unions (CTU). I think they played an amazing role in re-building the union movement over there. The leadership of the CTU has cut through a lot of the hang ups from the past and there seems to be a new level of co-operation and commitment among union in New Zealand. There are numerous examples in the US of peak councils forming alliances with community organizations, supporting unions that are running campaigns in areas which have not been traditionally well organised. I think the role of the AFL-CIO has been crucial in the reform process that is going on in the US at the moment. I think that the NSW Labor Council is well placed and has a committed team. We really can make a difference. Let's talk about some of the projects that you're getting involved in this year, one of course is the Building Industry. How are you preparing amongst the unions for the upcoming round EBAs? The unions have been working under a program co-ordinated by the Labor Council. That program has been about building unity amongst the unions, eliminating factionalism and other barriers to co-operation and actually getting the unions to define what the next 12 months and five years is going to be about, in terms of concrete identifiable objectives. This is being backed up with a campaign strategy where unions have been asked to put money into a campaign. I have also developed a fairly comprehensive, and sometimes I feel, a bit ambitious, education program. But I feel really excited about what's occurring in that industry. It comes down to strategy. So if we could unite on a strategy, then we could unite for a common purpose and really work together, and THAT'S been the core of what the Building and Construction Industry Campaign has been about. How hard is it to cut through that history? You're talking here about unions that have been openly hostile to each other for decades. Yeah, that's right. Whenever I initially start to talk to a union leader about forming an alliance which is based on genuine co-operation and people being their word there is all this stuff that always comes up about what happened in the past. My challenge is to say to people, we can live on the basis of what happened in the past - the consequence of doing that is that the union movement in this country will almost certainly die. We have had 25 years of decline. The projection of that continuing in the future has us disappearing between 2010 and 2012. Clearly we can't rely on what's happened in the past, to determine a bright future for the union movement and for working people in this country. My challenge, therefore, is to say - if we could leave the past in the past and project something into the future, what would we do? And the context that I would put this in is to say to any union leader is say, ok what will you tell your children about how you spent the next 5 years in terms of rebuilding the union movement? The next 5 years are the make it or break it years. Howard and Abbot know that. We just have to get clear about this. And that's the crucial challenge that I think union leaders face. Is there a big bang solution to the problems unions face? I think the path for union growth in terms of numbers, density and influence is relatively clear. The organising and the campaigning that's occurring around the world, including in Australia is providing a way forward. I think we need to refine our technique strategies and skills, but if unions want to grow, then that for a large number of them this is possible. It's not inevitable that the union movement will decline. There are very clear studies, very clear analysis and concrete examples of how unions can make the choice to grow. I think the role of the Labor Council is to ambitiously pursue an agenda to get growth within the NSW union movement and to challenge unions nationally about what is possible. Within that framework, and particularly from the perspective of unions out there at the grass roots, is there a value in the relationship with the ALP, in unions being seen as being very close to a political party? Well, look, I suppose the way I look at my job here, is that I really want to work with other around me to change the world. I want to create something that's different from what currently exists. And I don't want things in the past to stop us from achieving that. In the past the union movement's relationship with the ALP has been by and large a comfortable relationship. I think that what has to happen in the future is, as we rebuild we get more and more rank & file activism going which is part of that rebuilding process, I think that the relationship with the ALP will inevitably change because unions will begin to demand the things that support the organising and rebuilding of powerful working people. I don't think that's currently occurring to the extent that it needs to and this will change in the future. So I think that we do have to have a relationship with the ALP, but that relationship has to be based on an organised and empowered workforce capable of making demands on the ALP from that perspective. So what issues would be on the front burner if that was the case? There are 3 things that we need to discuss with the ALP: organising rights, organising rights and organising rights. John Howard is aware of our weaknesses and so the Coalition initiatives have all been about breaking down our capacity to organise at a grass roots level. The latest example is the Building Industry Royal Commission - $60 million is being poured in to breaking down the level of organising in the construction industry. It's a very strong industry and Howard wants to destroy our organisation in that industry. Our relationship with the ALP has got to be, in a way, the opposite of what is occurring with the Coalition. We have to be discussing with the ALP initiatives that support grass roots organising. So for example, the discussions that are being had by Greg Combet and John Robertson with respect to creating a delegate education fund are precisely where we need to be placing our energies at the moment. But what we mustn't do is allow our arrangement and our alliances with the ALP to be such that it stops us from organising at a grass roots level. Finally, can you share a story about unions out there in 2002 that gives you confidence that the unions are going to survive. Well, I am completely inspired by the NSW ETU. Bernie Riordan asked me to come and work for him and said that he wanted to creating something really special in the Branch. I went there and was part of that and that has really inspired me. That union has had 15 years of decline in NSW and is now growing. Bernie and the leadership team in the Branch are looking at making it growing even faster this year and introducing a whole range of initiatives which include rank and file committees and rank and file involvement in the ownership of campaigns. The ETU is pretty clear on where they want to be in 3 or 4 or 5 years time. The Branch has formed strong relationships with other Branches of the ETU in other states which cross factional boundaries and in fact, cross years of intense competition with other ETU branches, especially the Victorian branch. Yet all of that is being, in a way, pushed to one side for the greater good of the members. I tell that story because, if it's possible for the NSW ETU to do it, in my mind it's possible for other unions in this country to do it. My oldest daughter is 6. When she goes out to get a job, if the current trends continue there will be no union movement. I'm committed to doing something about this.
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